Session Start: Sat Nov 17 13:59:24 2007 Session Ident: #nonprophets [13:59] * Now talking in #nonprophets [13:59] * Topic is 'Tune in to the next LIVE Non-Prophets show, Saturday, November 17th, 2007! at 3:00pm eastern (19:00 UTC) on http://www.nonprophetsradio.com, or visit the website for archived episodes.' [13:59] * Set by Non-Prophets on Sat Nov 03 15:04:06 [13:59] Hi, I'm a female listener from Cleveland. [13:59] * ChanServ sets mode: +oq Non-Prophets Non-Prophets [13:59] hi! [13:59] we have an international crowd here [13:59] Yes, am actually reading a book by Michael Shermer now (denying history) which describes that very well. It doesn't really matter the contents of ones belief, but the rigidity of the belief stays the same [14:00] -> *chanserv* topic #nonprophets Tune in to hear the Non-Prophets LIVE, today at 3pm eastern (19:00 UTC)! Visit http://www.nonprophetsradio.com for connection information! [14:00] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Tune in to hear the Non-Prophets LIVE, today at 3pm eastern (19:00 UTC)! Visit http://www.nonprophetsradio.com for connection information! (Non-Prophets)' [14:00] Starting late...as usual. But, there will be a surprise around 45 minutes in [14:01] ooh [14:01] Cool! Who's calling in? [14:01] Rigidity in what sense ... punishment of those who question, or ...? [14:01] cake? [14:01] * bugsoup has joined #nonprophets [14:01] is the link up yet? [14:01] Rigidity as in how firm a belief is held [14:01] open mindedness [14:01] but there is that saying... [14:02] So in that sense (and in that sense alone) atheist fundamentalist almost is correct [14:02] an open mind is good, but not so open that your brains fall out [14:02] I wish there were more emphasis that Atheists are generally against dogmatism, even if that's politics. That defeats the communists were atheists argument. [14:02] You'll never hear a zombie utter that saying. [14:03] * TateModern has joined #nonprophets [14:03] will ya'll tell us when ya'll start? [14:03] * Don has joined #nonprophets [14:03] yall [14:03] :) [14:03] y'all [14:04] Is the show late today? [14:04] of course [14:04] Well, it isn't early today ;-) [14:04] it is a habit they enjoy [14:04] G, I think this crowd is against dogmatism, but I think that clarification just has to be done on a case-by-case basis. Atheism just doesn't take a stand on dogmatism. [14:04] gah, Itunes is giving me gip...it better not keep this up... [14:04] There's a good reason for it...we're fiddling with the phone box. Gonna have a caller today [14:05] hey guys, have any of you been listenig to the other "atheist/humanist" podcasts [14:05] richard dawkins? [14:05] * TateModern grumbles several obscenities about Apple [14:05] I guess I meant in the general media, that point isn't made enough. Strictly speaking, def. of atheism doesn't include a stand on dogmatism, though. [14:05] you wish lol [14:05] oh great now you read our comments when we are being mean [14:05] Has he a podcast? I quite like 'Dogma free america [14:05] like dogma free america, humanist network news, etc [14:05] he is the prophet of atheism [14:05] He is our pope. [14:06] the annointed one [14:06] you mean he has a direct phone line to Sagan? [14:06] Did you guys hear that next week is Dogma Free America's last podcast? [14:06] As I tell catholics : "our pope has a cuter accent that yours!" [14:06] no shit [14:06] I like point of inquiry and free thought radio. I found humanist news boring. [14:06] and is way hotter [14:07] * jer has joined #nonprophets [14:07] hmm...If you like old guys I guess. [14:07] skeptics guide to the universe is great too G [14:07] Yeah, Rich announced it on this week's. [14:07] How could I forget? And Reggie, but not as much lately. [14:07] * arensb has joined #nonprophets [14:07] Cool, sounds like I need to google some names :-) [14:07] what program do you all use to play the show? [14:07] G: I completely agree that the media usually doesn't even *get* atheism. But more to the point, I don't think atheism has much to say about our troubles as much as attacking fundmaentalism and dogma does. [14:08] Reggie has stopped though huh? [14:08] * jer has quit IRC (Client exited) [14:08] This is handled by VLC [14:08] Where has Reggie been lately? He hasn't done anything lately. [14:08] i've catching up on a lot backlog on DFA, HNN, FTR, skepticality, CFI-POI [14:08] Reggie says on his site that he was out of town. [14:09] and i have to say that NPR and the atheist experience are by far the most entertaining :) [14:09] * jer has joined #nonprophets [14:09] The humanist podcast is dry, but has great guests. Skeptic's Guide is the best non-non-prophet podcast. [14:09] agreed [14:09] I listen to old NPRs and AEs at work on my headphones. [14:09] although i've never heard the humanist one [14:10] Hey NPR, is my pod-catching software just going to pick you guys up when you start? [14:10] dogma free america is quite good as well actually. But I first found these things from the atheist experience on youtube. That was a nice month, watching all the back issues :-) [14:11] Is DFA new? I hadn't heard of it. [14:11] ooh, buffering [14:11] Got music! [14:11] yay. [14:11] Anyone listen to WIll and Iris? [14:11] yay [14:11] go time [14:11] I agree Ouini, SGU is second only to NPR [14:11] got vlc a second before it sarted. phew [14:11] Who are Will & Iris? [14:11] Yay sound! [14:11] No link, yet ... [14:11] * arensb has left #nonprophets [14:11] no link? [14:12] link works for me. [14:12] * arensb has joined #nonprophets [14:12] DFA is at episode 49, one a week [14:12] i just got sound [14:12] Nothing. It's on?? [14:12] yup [14:12] on [14:12] cheery song... [14:12] Is that Miss Piggy? [14:12] Pretty wierd music. Gets me in the bioshock mood :-D [14:12] Nada. neither http://nonprophets.gotdns.org:8000/listen.pls nor http://nonprophets.gotdns.org:8000/listen [14:12] Im depressed now... [14:12] "The specified module could not be found." [14:13] muzak for the season [14:13] My favorite winter song. Interesting version of it. [14:13] http://nonprophets.gotdns.org:8000 [14:13] Hey, it's not as bad as when my iPod on random shuffle takes me from Marilyn Manson to Gilbert & Sullivan. That really hurts my brain. [14:13] Live [14:13] 'interesting' is right [14:13] now [14:13] .... [14:14] nuttin. Dambit. [14:14] *echooo* [14:14] i'm hoping for a lot of hats this time ;) [14:14] ass-hats? [14:14] I shall use this time to make some tea. [14:14] right on [14:14] brb [14:14] BTW, the show URL at http://nonprophets.gotdns.org:8000/ is given as "http://www.nonprophetradio.com". It's missing an S in there. [14:14] http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ <- is a good player for the stream [14:15] Ok, I'll get Don to fix the link later. Thanks! [14:15] Or is that just a display issue? [14:16] Argument from authority? [14:16] i think so [14:16] sounds like it [14:16] if it's good for the circus, it's good for me [14:16] crapcrapcrap. [14:17] lol... [14:17] Finest hour and a half ;-) [14:17] a long, dark two weeks [14:17] Pope "Eggs" Benedict. [14:17] Ahh, Darth Ratzinger [14:17] Joey Ratz. [14:17] right on! [14:17] damn. [14:18] Well, won't be making the IHOP tomorrow [14:18] gotit. Used real instead of Windows Media Player [14:18] so it's true! [14:18] all you do is drink booze! [14:19] yeah, we kick to much ass to be neutral. [14:19] * TateModern has quit IRC (TateModern) [14:20] * TateModern has joined #nonprophets [14:20] (Asshats at the Red Cross won't let me donate blood.) [14:20] why not? [14:20] those things are important [14:20] Because I've lived in Europe for >= 5 years since 1980. [14:21] seriously? [14:21] so...cant american handle european blood? [14:21] Yup. [14:21] what does that have to do with donating blood? [14:21] Lamest excuse I've heard in a long time. [14:21] its not like excess cheese intake will kill every one west of france [14:21] what disease are they screening for there? [14:21] another sign that jesus hates europeans [14:21] I think it's the higher incidence of mad cow disease in England. [14:22] yeah...in cows. [14:22] There needs to be an Atheist Community of DC. Just for the abbreviation. [14:22] And we're proud of that Ilya [14:22] arensb is not a cow. [14:22] i know [14:22] arensb, lol [14:22] as far as im aware. [14:22] * Canadian_hoser has quit IRC [14:23] Damn right. Atheism isn't like skin color. It's very easy to be invisible. [14:23] Oh cruel irony. I have to go. [14:23] * ouini has quit IRC (ouini) [14:23] unless you are matt and you have it tattooed on you [14:23] should probably think about a tattoo :) [14:24] on the forehead [14:24] I have enough trouble deciding what bumper stickers are worth putting on my car. No way I'm getting a tattoo. [14:24] Going to a humanist talk thursday after next. Think the subject a bit flaky, but I'm pretty excited actually [14:24] i have one [14:24] need one of those science ones [14:24] I want the atheist A tatooed all prettily aroung my belly button. [14:24] Ever since I was a kid, I thought the only tattoo I could get would be of a question mark [14:25] we have practically no bumper stickers here, no such culture [14:25] yay! [14:25] have you read skepticism inc.? [14:25] woo [14:25] Nun?? [14:25] http://www.flickr.com/photos/carlzimmer/sets/72157601351535771/ [14:26] science tats [14:26] courtesy of carl zimmer [14:26] author of fine non-fiction [14:26] I'm pretty sure the largest religious bloc in the US is Catholics. [14:26] no way [14:26] protestants [14:26] not with all the immigrants. [14:26] Id say catholic. [14:26] Depends how you group protestants: they're a million little tribes. [14:26] but they all vote together [14:27] They do? [14:27] pretty much [14:27] not literally [14:27] Call me skeptical. I'd like to see some evidence. [14:27] yea me too acutally [14:28] i just have a "feeling" they do [14:28] If you leave islam officially you should be killed (as dictated by the Quran) [14:28] yup [14:28] ? [14:28] why [14:28] Look up the American Religious Affiliation Survey. When you ask people how they define themselves, they tend not to answer "Protestant", but rather "Methodist" or "Baptist" or whatever. [14:28] hey, its better than burning for every if you leave christianity. [14:29] wonder how long it takes for the islamic communities in Europe to denounce killing apostates [14:29] officially [14:29] except that the muslims actually kill you [14:29] and if you leave chrisianity [14:29] I get the feeling we wont live long enought to see that [14:29] you don't really burn [14:29] hmm, tis the principal though. [14:29] There was a YouTube video of an Islamic representative on the BBC. She tap-danced around the issue of killing apostates. [14:29] islam in practise is worse, [14:30] hand on the origin of species [14:30] but christianity as a philosophy is much more scary [14:30] I think most people don't really know what their religion actually says, let alone actually really agree with it. [14:30] * Canadian_hoser has joined #nonprophets [14:30] She made all sorts of nice-nice noises, but when the interviewer asked her to condemn killing apostates, she dodged and weaved and wouldn't say anything. [14:30] less people to convince though [14:31] ways to go then [14:31] nice tattoos btw [14:31] they're rad huh? [14:31] the periodic table seemed a little out of place on a fore arm [14:32] chest of back might be better :) [14:32] more space [14:32] ah, praying for rain, that will work [14:32] it's the principal [14:32] It will work eventually. [14:32] nothing [14:32] wear it on the back of your shirt, like the chick in the movie evolution [14:32] i've never heard of that movie [14:32] its quite old...funny though. [14:33] * Don has quit IRC (Goodbye) [14:33] david duchovny, tea leoni et al, right? [14:33] :-) [14:33] tea's so hot [14:33] :) [14:33] so is david! [14:34] Julianne Moore was the costar in Evolution [14:34] oh yeah, right [14:34] So God does intervene in the world, but only just enough to confirm believers' preconceived notions. [14:34] she's hot too [14:34] god was drunk when he answered that one... [14:35] he'd been listening to old episodes of the nonprophets [14:35] Does this prayer smell stale to you? [14:36] best before date [14:36] bi weekly rain dances? [14:36] I like how Mr. Deity answers prayers. [14:36] "there's some fuzzy stuff growing on it" [14:36] Hey, that prayer is moldy, throw it away! [14:36] yuk, jesus can eat that on [14:36] Stale bread can be reused as salad croutons. What can you do with a stale prayer? [14:37] tease theists with it? [14:37] communion? [14:37] Communion wafers with brie and wine? [14:37] yes please [14:37] mmm... [14:37] And well, if there's a drought, you could perhaps do something about global warming... [14:37] that probably won't help [14:38] bloody hell... [14:38] * TateModern smacks head on table [14:38] the mission of the church doesn't seem to include NOT FONDLING LITTLE BOYS [14:38] mission of the church??? [14:38] Can't we strategically redeploy gays to attract hurricanes, but use their protective shield to avoid actual damage? [14:38] It's supposed to jeopardize the mission of the church! [14:39] can't god front them some cash? [14:39] So NAMBLA should make themselves a religion [14:39] that makes sense [14:40] insurance for molestation lawsuits [14:40] pretty f'ed up [14:41] to pray to children [14:41] childrens' bottoms [14:41] can you actually insure yourself against lawsuits if you do something illegaö [14:41] illegal [14:41] Im sure you can [14:41] I like these non prophets the best! ;-) [14:41] yes [14:42] the podcasts [14:42] against lawsuits, yes. Like homeowners can. [14:42] theres a reason why big buisnesses have so many lawyers. [14:42] Probably not if it's premeditated. But you can obviously get insurance for being found guilty of stuff. Like malpractice insurance. [14:42] * Dave63 has joined #nonprophets [14:42] If I had an organization that dealt with children, I'd get molestation insurance. [14:42] ok, sort of like malpractice, right :) [14:43] i guess it makes sense [14:43] Of course, I'd try to avoid lawsuits by being responsible, but you never know who will accuse you of what. [14:43] exactly [14:43] "Non-payment of taxes?" Was that a dig at Hovind? [14:43] not just hovind. [14:44] * oo303 has joined #nonprophets [14:44] burn it! [14:45] and it all goes to larger pot [14:45] * Dave63 has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) [14:45] But churches give money to the vatican. they pay dues [14:45] * Dave63 has joined #nonprophets [14:45] Oh yeah, real abstract. [14:46] I want to put the church out of business [14:46] I want them out of business because people stop believing. [14:46] lol!!! [14:46] G: is it a franchise deal, like when the corner McDonald's pays money to the McD Corp. for the right to put up the golden arches? [14:47] the catholics closed down a few churches around here [14:47] ah, paranoia. gotta love it. [14:47] Maybe, I know every one pasys something up to belong to the larger group, i think most churches are like that. [14:47] Oh no! Sure it would be better that way, but I'd settle immediately for total bankruptcy for those clowns [14:47] So maybe the church should sue Satan. [14:48] money is the route of all evil, so satan must be minted. [14:48] that would rule [14:49] And give your documents to real historians! [14:49] ooh, i'd like to take tour in the vatican archives [14:50] how much would the shroud of turin get? [14:50] i love the wnd [14:50] I want to see the records of galileos trial... [14:50] zilch, its a known fake. [14:50] still, it might make a few bucks [14:50] Eh. It's an old fake, so it has historical value. [14:50] i wonder how much money the vatican has in real estate around the world [14:50] It's fake if you think it's the mask of jesus, but it is a quite, quite old relic anyway [14:50] It must be worth $500 in sentimental value alone. [14:50] trillions [14:51] unless they sold it to a rich catholic... [14:51] like the dominoes guy [14:51] Couple of million at the most [14:52] How about a display showing Santa Claus nailed to a cross? [14:52] * nate_wi has joined #nonprophets [14:52] ah dude, youll creep the kids out. [14:53] ho ho ho i'm being persecuted [14:53] good [14:53] pin the south park christmas critters up. [14:53] does jesus hanging on a cross not freak them out [14:53] anyone see the Imagination Land episode? [14:53] it sure creeps me out [14:53] they are desensitised to that. [14:55] to any regulars here, how much people are there on the channel usually during a live webcast? [14:55] ha [14:55] aclu's jihad against christianity [14:55] ah...bout ten [14:55] jeff! aaaaaah! [14:56] Cool! Jeff! [14:56] eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh! [14:56] JEFF! We miss you man! [14:56] Come back to us jeff! [14:56] right on, i love jeff [14:56] I want a war on anything Christmas before the day after thanksgiving [14:56] oh, I would have imagined we would be fighting for those 30 cast slots :) [14:57] ninja jeff [14:57] OBTW, the thing about Australia banning "ho ho ho" (from the TAE blog) has been repealed. [14:57] http://www.ooblick.com/weblog/2007/11/17/australia-starts-the-war-on-christmas/ [14:57] 'bout time [14:57] christmas starts here right after Halloween [14:58] I've heard that as "If you could go back in time to ancient Judea, would you stop the crucifixion?" [14:58] Or maybe Jesus could just eat at Denny's for your sins instead. [14:58] didn't die for me, I am not a sinner [14:58] didn't die for me [14:58] probably was never born either [14:59] sin's such a slippery concept [14:59] I'm not sure. I think I might choose crucifixion over breakfast at Denny's. [14:59] I was born innicent [14:59] god's god [15:02] A more charitable interpretation would be that it's really hard to figure out what's moral; that we can't figure it out, but God can. And he's passing along information that we're not smart enough to figure out. [15:02] if it god's nature, why couldn't it also be our nature [15:03] Salvation makes lots sense. It's just like when I stomp on my own foot so that I don't have to punch my dog for being hairy. [15:03] How can you take anyone serious who is braindumping like that about a subject (god) that is supernatural and doesn't interact mesurably with the world [15:03] amen [15:04] Ah, so "don't eat pork" doesn't really make sense, but God's lawyers insisted on it. [15:04] lol nate! I want that on a t-shirt! [15:04] www.richarddawkins.net [15:05] * arensb pimps wiki.ironchariots.org [15:05] that iron chariots thing is priceless [15:06] "oh no, chariots of iron, I can't do shit" [15:06] I wonder if God could stand up to a Hummer [15:06] so, can we run over god with a car? [15:06] I guess cursing a fig tree for not bearing figs out of season isn't a sin. [15:06] Or making your own scourge to whip moneychangers. [15:07] That science for ford. [15:07] Or ruining a swineherd by stampeding his pigs over a cliff. [15:07] i bet he could mess up the rubber tires [15:07] that man will save us fromt he rapture one day [15:07] I'd like to know more about the change from bronze to iron age actually. That's supposed to be a time of blitz krieg with (people with) iron swiftly taking over the world [15:07] the godless age of...iron! [15:08] (Did I call that, or what?) [15:08] That's why no Christian has a 401(k). [15:09] Non-Prophets, serious lack of asshats! [15:10] asshat asshat asshat asshat asshat asshat asshat asshat asshat asshat asshat [15:10] if hed just seen a single frozen waterfall, would he have converted to judaism? [15:10] happy now? [15:10] or 18 to hinduism? [15:10] I thought about praying for asshats but that probably wouldn't have been very productive [15:10] Belief breeds belief [15:11] I've asked theists to believe in leprechauns or Thor for a few minutes, to show me how it's done. [15:11] Canadian_hoser, it doesn't really count if it's on the channel, sorry :) [15:11] sorry [15:12] it's ok [15:12] Hope this isn't going to be an asshat free episode... And we're talking about SUCH asshats [15:14] rearrange the stars to spell out "God Exists" in 20 languages. [15:14] ha [15:15] That bloody talk ;-) [15:15] Harris has a point, but he's wrong for other reasons. [15:15] i think the reaction was an overreaction [15:17] Yeah, that's pretty much bullshit [15:17] * targetta has quit IRC (targetta) [15:17] certainly any neurological phenomena are worth studying [15:17] no [15:18] i disagree [15:18] sorta [15:18] Brainscience is going very, very rapidly, and those tools CAN be shared [15:18] I definetly disagree. The experience of meditation can be reproduced in a lab. [15:18] there is definitely a difference between praying and medidating [15:18] yea [15:18] yeah, mediatting takes longer. [15:18] Show me there's some there, there. [15:18] but saying that meditation will save the world also bullshit [15:18] He's a neuroscientist soon actually, so he should know better actually [15:19] sitting on your ass never saved anyone. [15:19] but it does relax people [15:19] So does masturbation, and that's a lot easier. [15:19] Those tools are getting to be so cheap in 20 years everybody will have a set [15:19] so does going to a spa, and at least then someone gets paid [15:19] haha, nice one [15:19] prayer = masterbation [15:20] What use a little box to move my cursos? What primitive shit is that? [15:20] We could make an excellent religion [15:20] i think there is a difference between squeezing one out and meditating [15:20] i've done both [15:20] Canadian_hoser, though less satisfying [15:20] choking the chicken is much more enjoyable [15:20] eh [15:20] enjoyment is subjective [15:20] I am the queen of euphamisms. [15:20] bow down! [15:20]